Capital flight

Re: Capital flight

Postby Saz » Mon May 08, 2017 9:07 am

Cashed out today. Market is looking overbought and I was very heavy ETH. Total Invested, 5630, total withdrawal 32450, profit 26820. Unfortunately this is all short term gains so I'm looking at roughly 40% in tax. Going to take out 22450, return initial investment and save the rest in case I get a tax bill. Other 10k goes back into cryptos. Going to try to diversify again but waiting for the market to pull back and this time I'm going to keep them in a reputable exchange instead of on sketchy Russian exchanges that i can't get back into (this probably cost me 8-10k looking at current market prices).

You guys should really look into this. Crazy thing is is the cryptos I was diversified into back in 2012 are still there. They basically did nothing for a few years and now are going up 100-900%. I'm sure they will flatline soon and again in 1-2 years will do the same. Lot of very easy money making opportunities because this shit is so unregulated. You have ICO's that allocate based on initial investment and which are guaranteed to pop because they are oversubscribed. You basically just saying your going to buy a million bucks worth in order to get priority, then buy whatever amount you want and can flip after they hit the market. You have cointeams literally tweeting their plans out and in a very shallow market you can actually buy before it gets priced in. Market is so much more sophisticated than in 2012 though, the exchanges now actually give you complete trade reports, you can buy on margin, stop/loss. There is now a robust Initial Coin Offering market and actually the coins operate more like equity than like a currency. It's actually funny because this basically seems like issuing unregistered securities, but hey what am I a securities lawyer?!
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Re: Capital flight

Postby Winchester » Mon May 08, 2017 10:20 am

Saz wrote:Cashed out today. Market is looking overbought and I was very heavy ETH. Total Invested, 5630, total withdrawal 32450, profit 26820. Unfortunately this is all short term gains so I'm looking at roughly 40% in tax. Going to take out 22450, return initial investment and save the rest in case I get a tax bill. Other 10k goes back into cryptos. Going to try to diversify again but waiting for the market to pull back and this time I'm going to keep them in a reputable exchange instead of on sketchy Russian exchanges that i can't get back into (this probably cost me 8-10k looking at current market prices).

You guys should really look into this. Crazy thing is is the cryptos I was diversified into back in 2012 are still there. They basically did nothing for a few years and now are going up 100-900%. I'm sure they will flatline soon and again in 1-2 years will do the same. Lot of very easy money making opportunities because this shit is so unregulated. You have ICO's that allocate based on initial investment and which are guaranteed to pop because they are oversubscribed. You basically just saying your going to buy a million bucks worth in order to get priority, then buy whatever amount you want and can flip after they hit the market. You have cointeams literally tweeting their plans out and in a very shallow market you can actually buy before it gets priced in. Market is so much more sophisticated than in 2012 though, the exchanges now actually give you complete trade reports, you can buy on margin, stop/loss. There is now a robust Initial Coin Offering market and actually the coins operate more like equity than like a currency. It's actually funny because this basically seems like issuing unregistered securities, but hey what am I a securities lawyer?!


I'm okay with the slow steady approach, though I do set aside a small percentage for more speculative stocks, but I don't have the time to understand cryptos to make me comfortable enough to start throwing money at them. If I earn 6% average over the next 15 years I'll have 3mil in investments split fairly equally between a sep, roth IRAs, and taxable investment accounts for retirement. Mrs will have her teacher's pension, we'll have SS and my rental property will kick off $30K per year and I'll have my practice to sell so I'm not too worried about running out of money. I also paid off my mortgage last Friday so I'm officially debt free.
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Re: Capital flight

Postby Saz » Mon May 08, 2017 10:49 am

I'm okay with the slow steady approach, though I do set aside a small percentage for more speculative stocks, but I don't have the time to understand cryptos to make me comfortable enough to start throwing money at them. If I earn 6% average over the next 15 years I'll have 3mil in investments split fairly equally between a sep, roth IRAs, and taxable investment accounts for retirement. Mrs will have her teacher's pension, we'll have SS and my rental property will kick off $30K per year and I'll have my practice to sell so I'm not too worried about running out of money. I also paid off my mortgage last Friday so I'm officially debt free.


Yea, doesn't make sense for you to be trading in this as it's incredibly volatile. Congrats on the mortgage, finally free of DEM IRON CHAINZ OF DEBT.

I have student loans to pay so I'm gonna dump about 1.5k in 3-5 ICO's and hope one pops like ETH. If you get in at the initial stage and the coin goes to $100, usually looking at about half a mil. That's my goal. Just pick one right and I pay off my loans and can get a nice place. Even if I don't pick one right, as long as the market continues to boom every few years and I can clear 25k+ on my investment, that's decent I think. Also good to play around with this shit now I think, real money to be made in this space and you kind have to spend some time with it to be in a position to capitalize. I slacked, didn't keep up with the markets after my initial round and missed out on the ETH ICO. Didn't keep up with exchanges either so I'm here waiting for my deposit/withdrawal limits to be verified when I could have been actively trading for a profit.

Also talked to a bro I know who sold a BTC related startup, gave me the low down on taxes. Basically I'm taking short or long rate and it's unclear if your basis carries over when you trade Crypto -> Crypto. Really means you buy and hold for 1+ yr or you can just trade to your hearts content and take the short term rate. I need to talk to my tax preparer though to what extent I can deduct my losses. Going to start taking this seriously though aiming to participate in an ICO every quarter, half held for minimum of one year - spend maybe an hour or two a week keeping up with the market. Hard part is staying current but avoiding the urge to trade. May have already done that as i was sitting on 30k of ETH (450k if it hits BTC prices). Looking objectively though, if I had 30k i wouldn't sink it into ETH now so there is no reason for me to hold, still 6 months away from long term rates. Yea, I turned 500 bucks into like 35k in a few years, but if I held that initial 500 in BTC until now, would have like 100k. On the other hand, the other cryptos i held long term I lost on my shitty Russian exchange and in cold storage, so who knows.

Really interesting to see where the regulatory landscape on this will come out. Call me crazy but when the market pulls back a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money and then the regulators are going to start wondering what the difference between an ICO and an IPO is. I don't think there is one, these are fundamentally securities, and the IRS treating them like property is a short term fix for an asset class no one really understands yet. It's actually insane that this is a 100B market and the f**k IRS can't even tell you if there is a carry-over basis. Really makes you wonder who the people are sinking millions into this.
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Re: Capital flight

Postby Winchester » Mon May 08, 2017 11:04 am

Saz wrote:Really interesting to see where the regulatory landscape on this will come out. Call me crazy but when the market pulls back a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money and then the regulators are going to start wondering what the difference between an ICO and an IPO is. I don't think there is one, these are fundamentally securities, and the IRS treating them like property is a short term fix for an asset class no one really understands yet. It's actually insane that this is a 100B market and the f**k IRS can't even tell you if there is a carry-over basis. Really makes you wonder who the people are sinking millions into this.


I suspect there are some really, really big players that can manipulate the market and they are systematically fleecing a lot of the people putting money into cryptos... not unlike the Hunt brothers in the 70s.
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Re: Capital flight

Postby Saz » Tue May 09, 2017 7:21 am

Winchester wrote:
Saz wrote:Really interesting to see where the regulatory landscape on this will come out. Call me crazy but when the market pulls back a lot of people are going to lose a lot of money and then the regulators are going to start wondering what the difference between an ICO and an IPO is. I don't think there is one, these are fundamentally securities, and the IRS treating them like property is a short term fix for an asset class no one really understands yet. It's actually insane that this is a 100B market and the f**k IRS can't even tell you if there is a carry-over basis. Really makes you wonder who the people are sinking millions into this.


I suspect there are some really, really big players that can manipulate the market and they are systematically fleecing a lot of the people putting money into cryptos... not unlike the Hunt brothers in the 70s.


It's the Chinese. You can see the trading volumes over time and the huge orders you see coming in are generally in Asian time zones. There is an entire parallel/shadow market in china. Is where the big money comes from and no one knows what's going on it with. I would guess it's some mix of organized crime, tax/currency control dodgers and speculators. There are also the exchanges themselves, which I'm sure prop trade like f**k. Because there is so little liquidity in most of these markets, simply listing on an exchange is going to be a price mover, and the exchange can control this time frame and prop trade in the currency before and after listing. I'm almost 100% positive this is what coinbase has been doing with LTC.

The issue isn't the performance of the coins. The issue is getting f**k left and right by the exchanges, hackers, and the pump and dump speculators and then the insiders who basically freely trade on that info.
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Re: Capital flight

Postby spacemonkey » Thu May 11, 2017 11:20 am

Its amusing to watch some become slaves to their money. Still can't take it with you. Tut proved that, his shit is still in the tomb. Well, maybe a museum. Either way, he ain't got it. But either way, good luck to all you high rollers, its always good to dream.
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Re: Capital flight

Postby Saz » Sun May 14, 2017 1:22 pm

Looks like I was right.

Sky-high valuations for bitcoin have helped the value of crypto currencies burst through $50bn, raising fears of an asset bubble in the unregulated market.

A growing number of alternative digital currencies — or “alt-coins” — is feeding the speculative frenzy with values in some rocketing as much as 500 per cent in the past week. A sharp spike in the price of bitcoin, which has risen 55 per cent this month and is worth more than gold, pushed it past $1,900 on the Bitfinex exchange on Friday.

The speculation has benefited anonymous payment systems, which are being used by cyber criminals executing widescale attacks such as the “ransomware” hack that spread across the world on Friday.

Aside from bitcoin, there are more than 830 alt-coins ranging from Litecoin, a challenger to bitcoin, to MiketheMug, a coin that promises to make weekly payouts to holders.

An increase in initial coin offerings (ICOs) — unregulated issuances of crypto coins where investors can raise money in bitcoin or other crypto currencies — is fuelling the market and drawing attention from lawyers and financial professionals.

Many fear ICOs, which are trying to market themselves as an alternative to venture capitalists as a way of raising cash for businesses, breach existing securities law.

“An ICO issues crypto tokens rather than stocks and bonds, but that’s irrelevant to the substance of the activity, which is raising capital from the general public,” said Ajit Tripathi, a director in fintech at PwC. “Capital raising activities need to be regulated to protect investors . . . The question is how sophisticated are these investors?”

Regulators, who in many cases are still catching up with how to deal with bitcoin, are only just becoming aware of this spin-off sector.

Japan moved to tighten regulation of bitcoin trading and dealing only last month. The move forced bitcoin exchanges to register with the state and to comply with know-your-customer and anti-money-laundering regulations, adding costs to their business.

Observers say many individuals are trading alt-coins from corporate IT departments, concentrated in the financial sector and falling under the radar of senior executives. Many are sitting on virtual fortunes, but are unable to liquidate their cash as banks clamp down on measures to avoid money laundering.

“Systems are being used here by employees to increase their own individual wealth. In the process, corporate systems are coming into contact with the fringes of the criminal world,” said Brian Lord, former deputy director for intelligence and cyber operations at GCHQ, the UK’s electronic surveillance agency .

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Now head of cyber practice at security group PGI, he added that it was likely very few companies had governance in place regarding crypto currency being traded on their systems.

ICOs, or “token sales”, are also starting to attract venture capitalists such as billionaire and early bitcoin supporter Tim Draper, who announced plans to invest in the highly anticipated launch of Tezos this month. The token is expected to garner big support from the sector’s many unregulated exchanges, many of whom have the capacity to make or break a new coin.

“We are just looking at whether they are going to be popular, they are selling you a dream. The dream is either going to happen or not and that’s why they are exciting for people,” said Arthur Hayes, a trader at Bitmex, a crypto derivatives exchange. “That tension is great for an exchange.”

Other traders were more cautious about the market’s potential. “Is it sustainable? Absolutely not,” said one trader at a dealing venue. “But while it’s happening, it’s happening. The biggest risk is that the SEC steps in.”


https://www.ft.com/content/ce3ef54e-371 ... 23f8c0fd2e
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Re: Capital flight

Postby spacemonkey » Mon May 15, 2017 10:51 am

Well, at least someone understands the concept of finite. :-B
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