the damn statues

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Re: the damn statues

Postby Saz » Sat Aug 19, 2017 5:45 pm

exploited wrote:
ToddStarnes wrote:Correct. As an American, I view the American revolution as a positive and am therefore comfortable with praising the leaders thereof.

As an American, I view treason against America as a negative and am therefore comfortable denigrating the leaders thereof.

Fairly obvious distinction for non autists.


The autist thing has been kind of overplayed, especially after I've cleared identified that I can understand why you feel the way you do (a desire for nationalism and victors justice). Americans have been brainwashed into believing the American Revolution was a good thing. Nothing can be further from the truth. It was an unmitigated disaster that resulted in about 70,000 British deaths, and then a hundred years later, when the government setup by the Founding Fathers failed spectacularly, another 600,000 American deaths. It extended the institution of slavery by about four decades, and then extended the shadow of that institution by another hundred. Before, during and after both civil wars, the American government did absolutely nothing to protect the most vulnerable. Not blacks during the Revolution or Reconstruction, not natives anytime, and most certainly not loyal British subjects who were tortured, murdered or forced to flee because they didn't want to commit treason.

In reality, Americans would have had full representation and perhaps even Commonwealth independence within a decade or two, no war required, had they not been seduced by the idealistic stupidity of the rebels. The death count would be a fraction of what it was. The damage to your civil society would be a fraction of what it was. And you would be blessed with a government that is actually functional, instead of the unholy abomination that is the US Constitution. And you'd have definitely missed out on the Articles of Confederation - seriously, worst political document ever, what the f**k were they thinking?

Anyways, I stand against treason and slavery. Those who do either deserve no memorial. But I can see where you stand - right alongside the fascists.


This is a very ignorant reading of history. The truth is had we not had a rebellion there would still have been a civil war. The south would have left the colonies once the British outlawed slavery. Maybe they would have lost as well but the civil war was unavoidable and honestly it would probably have been a bunch of canadians that ended up fighting the south on behalf of the british. Also, the british never really cared about manifest destiny and all that, so they wouldn't have pushed westward. It's entirely possible the North American continent would have a massive but poor mexico as the largest state, a french country covering the midwest and a southern backwards country that is now the american south. The northeast would just be an extension of canada. You might think this is fine but once you get to the 20th century america was the pillar of western civilisation. Who knows how ww1, ww2 or the cold war would have played out if there was not a massive dominant state like america. We would probably all be nazis or commies today.

Honestly, i will admit it was a bit bitchy to do the whole revolution over the taxation thing, when the colonies weren't actually excessively taxed and were actually very well represented in british politics. But it happened and in the long run only a retard would think it wasn't a good thing. The slavery issue was never going to go quietly - the original sin was dragging a bunch of africans to the new world in the first place (and they only did this because they exterminated the natives). It would have probably lasted much much longer in the south had we not declared independence, because the british never made an effort to stamp it out, they only prohibited the overseas trading (i.e. no more new slaves would come but they wouldn't gave gone to the lengths the north went to abolish the institution.

The constitution is also an excellent document, again only a retard would dispute this. I agree, 250 years later its probably not fully fit for purpose but the fact that it endured this long is a testament to how great it is. We were literally the first country to establish things like liberty and citizenship, although the french got around to it shortly after.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke
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Re: the damn statues

Postby exploited » Sat Aug 19, 2017 6:19 pm

The Constitution didn't endure. The Articles of Confederation failed right off the hop, and the Constitution itself failed in just a hundred years. Add in the fact that separation of powers has been an abysmal failure; that the electoral college system is f**k stupid and always has been; and that the only way for the federal government to regulate most of the modern economy was through a laughable court decision that expanded the commerce clause to be basically meaninglessness... Well, let's just say it isn't looking good. It took two SC decisions over twenty years just to make it so the government could make child labor illegal :)) The system of government created is vastly inferior to any parliamentary system in the Western world.

Beyond that, in regards to slavery, WWI, WWII, etc. it really is impossible to say how it all would have turned out. I can think of a dozen different scenarios, as I'm sure you can. The greater point is that you probably could have achieved all the same things without murdering your countrymen. Slavery was abolished sooner and with less bloodshed literally everywhere else, and the Founding Fathers were the ones responsible for the widespread belief that treason and violent rebellion is some sort of moral democratic duty (the tree of liberty etc). It is no wonder that things got so messed up - the Founding Fathers spread a creed of violent, antisocial individuality. Even today your national mythos are a poison to the civic body.

Dumb radicals who spazzed over nothing.
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Re: the damn statues

Postby John Galt » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:26 am

Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: the damn statues

Postby Spider » Sun Aug 20, 2017 11:41 am

I'm fine with moving past Columbus. The guy was trash.
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Re: the damn statues

Postby John Galt » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:45 pm

The man discovered the new world. Yeah he didn't know it really and yeah he was a shitty person when he was a governor but that doesn't erase the achievement or his importance
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Re: the damn statues

Postby The Comrade » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:43 pm

vikings discovered it centuries before him.

plus the guy was a f**k idiot who thought the earth was small and it would take him a few days to sail to india by going west.he doesn't deserve recognition.

what we should have is a day dedicated to amerigo vespucci. you know, the guy we're named after and the one who showed the americas weren't east asia.
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Re: the damn statues

Postby The Comrade » Sun Aug 20, 2017 9:46 pm

oh also he wasn't a genocidal maniac as far as i know.
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Re: the damn statues

Postby Gremlin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:26 pm

The Comrade wrote:yeah we're iconoclasts now. good job, sleuth.



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Re: the damn statues

Postby Gremlin » Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:23 pm

The Comrade wrote:yeah we're iconoclasts now. good job, sleuth.




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Re: the damn statues

Postby spacemonkey » Tue Aug 22, 2017 10:35 am

People rattled that much by inanimate objects must be really rattled by actual reality.
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