Tax Reform

The place for general political discussion.

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Winchester » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:02 am

Damnit, can't read the whole article. But I'm assuming it's due to raising the standard deduction making it more advantageous for more people to just take the standard deduction. Did the article say anything about losing state & local taxes as a deduction?
User avatar
Winchester
Governor
 
Posts: 5504
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:07 pm
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 746 times
Been thanked: 785 times

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:14 am

Winchester wrote:Damnit, can't read the whole article. But I'm assuming it's due to raising the standard deduction making it more advantageous for more people to just take the standard deduction. Did the article say anything about losing state & local taxes as a deduction?


Basically yes - you'll have to choose between the standard or the mortgage interest deduction. For most it should be a no - brainer. Won't be able to claim standard, personal exemptions, and mortgage interest at the same time anymore.

SALT is still on the table and being debated.

Frankly it looks like the US taxpayer is going to pay for corporate tax cuts. Those pass throughs are going to be raped. I hope this all goes down in a ball flames for Trump - this will get every tax paying citizen's attention.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby John Galt » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:33 am

Kane wrote:
Winchester wrote:Damnit, can't read the whole article. But I'm assuming it's due to raising the standard deduction making it more advantageous for more people to just take the standard deduction. Did the article say anything about losing state & local taxes as a deduction?


Basically yes - you'll have to choose between the standard or the mortgage interest deduction. For most it should be a no - brainer. Won't be able to claim standard, personal exemptions, and mortgage interest at the same time anymore.

SALT is still on the table and being debated.

Frankly it looks like the US taxpayer is going to pay for corporate tax cuts. Those pass throughs are going to be raped. I hope this all goes down in a ball flames for Trump - this will get every tax paying citizen's attention.


it's upper middle class that are going to be paying for tax cuts for the rich. that's the problem. i'm fine with corporate tax cuts -- they are one of the highest rates in the world and it has caused many companies to move money overseas

problem is really elimination of "personal deduction". i take that, along with mortgage and SALT and i get a pretty decent chunk back
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12352
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:35 am

If it was manufactured in such a way that it wasn't taking from everybody else to pay for lower corporate tax rates (and for pass throughs) then I'd be more inclined to support it. It doesn't make a lot of sense to take all of this away to further diminish discretionary spending around that time of year, to put middle and upper middle america as paying more, while giving these corporations a tax break and a way to manipulate it once again.

We'll see what they do with the tax "loopholes" on the corporate side but my inclination is to think this is going to make it easier for them to bring their effective tax rate down below most of our global peers.

Corporate Taxes as a % of GDP:

Image

Provided by the OECD and courtesy of Krugman. Lower the tax rates and don't remove most/all of the corporate exemptions? It'll be Reagan Redux where rates will have to go up under the same President. Repeatedly.
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby John Galt » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:15 pm

US is 3rd highest in world behind Chad and UAE

https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-inc ... orld-2015/
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12352
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Mon Oct 16, 2017 12:19 pm

John Galt wrote:US is 3rd highest in world behind Chad and UAE

https://taxfoundation.org/corporate-inc ... orld-2015/


US effective tax rate in line with other developed nations

https://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-t ... -countries

This is why I keep saying it all depends on whether exemptions for corporates remain with the lowered corporate top tax rate.

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/07/541797699 ... -the-world

https://americansfortaxfairness.org/tax ... tax-rates/

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherma ... 79f0a858aa

http://www.politico.com/interactives/20 ... companies/

https://itep.org/the-35-percent-corporate-tax-myth/

I am telling you...if they bring the top rate down without removing the exemptions and accounting for offshoring of profits we are truly f**k. Debt/deficit will go up, companies will take profit and give out dividend's or buy back shares (whatever floats their boat at the time) and...apparently in some magical land the average US worker will get a raise that's somewhat commensurate with the drop in the tax rate.

This stuff is so old and tired. How much did wages go up under Reagan?
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

Re: Tax Reform

Postby John Galt » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:37 pm

if i had my druthers...

all the tax breaks are gone. 25% corporate income tax. end of discussion

for personal income tax, progressive and it maxes out at 50% at over 2 million/year, with tax relief for low to middle/high middle earners, and removal of all exemptions, including standard.

death tax is at 90% for over $5 million, earmarked for infrastructure projects only. the inheritance we receive from those rich folks will benefit us all

there. sorted.
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt

These users thanked the author John Galt for the post:
Kane
User avatar
John Galt
Technical Admin
 
Posts: 12352
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 3:22 pm
Location: Bowling Green Massacre Survivor
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 578 times
Been thanked: 1284 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Saz » Tue Oct 17, 2017 4:42 am

John Galt wrote:if i had my druthers...

all the tax breaks are gone. 25% corporate income tax. end of discussion

for personal income tax, progressive and it maxes out at 50% at over 2 million/year, with tax relief for low to middle/high middle earners, and removal of all exemptions, including standard.

death tax is at 90% for over $5 million, earmarked for infrastructure projects only. the inheritance we receive from those rich folks will benefit us all

there. sorted.


yea and treat cap gains as ordinary income and provide punitive measures for tax dodges.
Pun intended for the plebes on here who don't get a joke

These users thanked the author Saz for the post:
Kane
User avatar
Saz
Governor
 
Posts: 8458
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:37 am
Location: Airstrip One
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 1069 times
Been thanked: 900 times
Political Leaning: Classic Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby swapnali » Tue Oct 17, 2017 5:54 am

hello all,

nice place to be here, i see nice comments and nice people as well, i will make it a point to come here more often to read and post comments so people and myself benefit.

Cheers!!!



https://toy-blast.soft32.com
swapnali
 
Posts: 0
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:01 am
Gender: None specified
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Political Leaning: Slightly Liberal

Re: Tax Reform

Postby Kane » Thu Oct 19, 2017 8:40 am

:))

NYT wrote:
White House Push to Help Workers Through Corporate Tax Cut Draws Skepticism

By JIM TANKERSLEYOCT. 17, 2017


WASHINGTON — The White House inflated the potential benefits to workers from a proposed corporate tax cut, according to a Harvard University economist whose work informed the estimate, highlighting a challenge Republicans face as they push a tax rewrite that President Trump has promised will benefit the middle class.

Mr. Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers said in a report released on Monday that reducing corporate taxes could raise average household incomes by as much as $9,000 a year. The top end of that estimate was based on work by a trio of researchers, and on Tuesday one of them, Mihir Desai of Harvard, said Mr. Trump’s team had misread the research. The actual income gain implied by his study, he estimated, would be $800.

Mr. Trump’s economic team disagreed — saying Mr. Desai had erred in interpreting his own paper.


The distinction could prove critical in the public reception to the Republican plan, which bets heavily on the notion that the best way to raise pay for American workers is to cut taxes on their employers.

The Republican proposal, which still lacks key details, thus far includes what analysts project will be only modest reductions in income taxes for many middle-class Americans. But it reduces the top corporate income tax rate to 20 percent from 35 percent, a move that Mr. Trump and Republican leaders say will spark faster economic growth and higher profits. Their theory is that companies will pass those winnings on to workers by raising their pay.

That claim has already run into opposition from many economists, particularly liberal-leaning ones. It could prove a difficult sell politically, at a time when corporate profits are near record highs and polling suggests Americans are skeptical that the Republican plan will help average workers.

“They are facing a lot of headwinds” in selling the plan, because Americans will not see it as a boon to the middle class, said Andrew Bates, a spokesman for the liberal opposition research group American Bridge, which is gearing up to oppose the Republican plan. “This plan is vulnerable, based on that landscape.”

As they prepare to release a full tax plan in the coming weeks, though, Republicans are pressing the argument.

“Fixing the business side of our tax code is really all about helping families and workers,” House Speaker Paul D. Ryan, Republican of Wisconsin, said last week. “Cutting the corporate tax rate means more jobs here in the United States. It will foster increased competition, which will directly drive up wages for our workers. Higher wages means bigger paychecks.”

The ability of Republicans to move forward with a tax bill got a boost on Tuesday, as Senator John McCain, Republican of Arizona, said he would support a budget resolution that will clear the path toward legislation. “I support the Senate budget resolution because it provides a path forward on tax reform,” Mr. McCain said in a statement.

The parliamentary language in the resolution would allow Republicans to pass tax cuts that cost as much as $1.5 trillion over the next decade with only 50 votes in the Senate, not the 60 needed to overcome a filibuster. Republican leaders have said that without a budget, there will be no tax cut.

In a speech at the Heritage Foundation in Washington on Tuesday evening, Mr. Trump called on Congress to quickly pass “incredible tax cuts” that he said will allow individuals, big corporations and small businesses to keep more of the money they earn.

Mr. Trump said his tax plan would expand the number of low-income people who pay no taxes, increase the child tax credit, lower rates on big corporations and small businesses, and pave the way for a return of trillions of corporate earnings parked overseas by American companies.

“Our tax plan will ensure that companies stay in America, grow in America and hire in America,” Mr. Trump told employees of the conservative organization. “We will lift our people from welfare to work, from dependence to independence, and from poverty to total, beautiful prosperity.”

The president urged Heritage Foundation employees to help the administration put pressure on Republican lawmakers to support the tax cuts, saying that “you will see things happen like have never happened before. We will have employment. We will have jobs. We will have companies moving back into our country.”

He added: “Let’s give our country the best Christmas present of all: massive tax relief.”

Many economists, including ones who served Democratic presidents, agree that lowering corporate taxes could lead to higher incomes for workers. A few, such as Lawrence B. Lindsey, the former director of President George W. Bush’s National Economic Council, have estimated the Republican plan for corporate cuts could lead to income gains of the magnitude that Mr. Trump’s economists are projecting.

But other economists have criticized the Trump team’s estimates as well above what research supports. That includes Mr. Desai, a professor at Harvard Business School and Harvard Law School, who co-authored a study on corporate taxation that Mr. Trump’s Council of Economic Advisers drew upon for its estimate. The report said that a corporate tax cut would increase average household income by $4,000 per year on the low end to as much as $9,000 at the high end.

Mr. Desai, who wrote the study with Harvard’s C. Fritz Foley and James Hines Jr. of the University of Michigan, said his own estimates of the effect of such a rate cut was closer to $800 a year. “I’m a believer in corporate tax reform, and I’m a believer in corporate tax cuts, and I believe they would go to workers,” he said. “But I don’t believe those numbers add up.”


The chief of staff for the council, D.J. Nordquist, said in an email that the $800 estimate was “far” from the academic consensus on the effects of corporate tax reductions on workers. “It’s gratifying to see Professor Desai agrees with us that there is a need for corporate tax reform and that rate reduction is the best way to help the middle class,” she wrote. “But the CEA did not misinterpret the Desai, Foley, and Hines paper.”

Other economists have attacked the council’s estimates in harsher terms than Mr. Desai. Robert J. Shapiro, the chairman of the consulting firm Sonecon and a former economic adviser to President Bill Clinton, said on Tuesday that there was no evidence in United States history of lower federal corporate tax rates driving surges in investment or wages. The council’s mistake, he said, was “in believing that the corporate tax rate determines the investment rate. That’s just not true.”

Polling suggests middle-class Americans are not clamoring for corporate rate cuts, and that they do not expect the Republican plan to reduce their own taxes. Recent polls by ABC News and the Pew Research Center show a majority of Americans would prefer to raise, not cut, corporate taxes.

A new poll from the online research firm SurveyMonkey, shared with The New York Times, shows that only 17 percent of Americans who identify as “middle class” expect their federal taxes to be lower next year than they are this year. That is less than half the rate for Americans who identify as “upper class.”


:))
Stephen Jay Gould wrote:When people learn no tools of judgment and merely follow their hopes, the seeds of political manipulation are sown.
User avatar
Kane
Governor
 
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: The Yay
Gender: Male
Has thanked: 299 times
Been thanked: 498 times
Political Leaning: Rockefeller Republican

PreviousNext

Return to General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

cron