This looks promising!

Re: This looks promising!

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:47 pm

Spider wrote:
If you are successful and you get the ISP's determined to be utilities, remember to do that they have to demonstrate that they are an essential service not provided elsewhere, in other words a monopoly, they will have no reason to upgrade and improve their networks. They will not face competition and they everyone will have to charge the same rates that will be determined by the Public Utilities Commission.


That. Is. Incorrect. Repeating it over and over again will not imbue it with any measure of truth. You are trying to compare the internet with phone lines and water systems...two totally unrelated systems that are not subject to Moore's Law.

1. Title II does NOT create a monopoly. The regulatory powers under title II can include but are not required to include a fairly wide spectrum of things.

2. Title II would free up competition in the form of a plurality of new service providers, both private and public, who would then have access to existing poles and infrastructure. Chief among them, Google, who has recently written extensively to the FCC about the potential for them to bring quality access to markets throughout the country where previously they would have had to bury fiber at purpose defeating cost.

3. They will have EVERY reason to upgrade and improve. Because, obviously...they would then have COMPETITION. Competition is the driving force here, right? Instead of saying, "We offer this for this price. Take it or leave it." as they currently do...now they've got to compete with someone who is falling all over themselves to offer a better service.

4. Leaving the cable companies outside of this classification is nothing more than a shelter for them. It protects them from the free market, and incentivizes them to slow the development of services in order to attack their competition. Witness the way US internet speeds continue to fall behind the rest of the world. There's the result of your "free" market...shittier service at a higher price. That's what happens without competition.

5. The ISP's lose when they create faster and freer internet access. Because of the fundamental conflict of interest between an ISP who is a cable provider and a streaming internet service, for example.

Please stop repeating yourself and giving us anecdotes and address these points.


Why? You haven't bothered to show me a single service classified as a utility that has improved substantially in the United States in the last 30 years. What makes you think ISPs being regulated would improve anything?
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby The Comrade » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:51 pm

what is an example of improved service that you're looking for? utilities currently are a zero sum game. you either have them or you don't. there aren't qualitative measures of the electricity you're getting.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Spider » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:54 pm

Southern Dad wrote:
Spider wrote:
If you are successful and you get the ISP's determined to be utilities, remember to do that they have to demonstrate that they are an essential service not provided elsewhere, in other words a monopoly, they will have no reason to upgrade and improve their networks. They will not face competition and they everyone will have to charge the same rates that will be determined by the Public Utilities Commission.


That. Is. Incorrect. Repeating it over and over again will not imbue it with any measure of truth. You are trying to compare the internet with phone lines and water systems...two totally unrelated systems that are not subject to Moore's Law.

1. Title II does NOT create a monopoly. The regulatory powers under title II can include but are not required to include a fairly wide spectrum of things.

2. Title II would free up competition in the form of a plurality of new service providers, both private and public, who would then have access to existing poles and infrastructure. Chief among them, Google, who has recently written extensively to the FCC about the potential for them to bring quality access to markets throughout the country where previously they would have had to bury fiber at purpose defeating cost.

3. They will have EVERY reason to upgrade and improve. Because, obviously...they would then have COMPETITION. Competition is the driving force here, right? Instead of saying, "We offer this for this price. Take it or leave it." as they currently do...now they've got to compete with someone who is falling all over themselves to offer a better service.

4. Leaving the cable companies outside of this classification is nothing more than a shelter for them. It protects them from the free market, and incentivizes them to slow the development of services in order to attack their competition. Witness the way US internet speeds continue to fall behind the rest of the world. There's the result of your "free" market...shittier service at a higher price. That's what happens without competition.

5. The ISP's lose when they create faster and freer internet access. Because of the fundamental conflict of interest between an ISP who is a cable provider and a streaming internet service, for example.

Please stop repeating yourself and giving us anecdotes and address these points.


Why? You haven't bothered to show me a single service classified as a utility that has improved substantially in the United States in the last 30 years. What makes you think ISPs being regulated would improve anything?


I think its pretty obvious why you can't answer.

And utilities improving or not is a totally moot argument. Obviously they don't have to improve. You turn on the tap and water comes out. Success. The end. They don't have competition. Why would they? That has NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with the internet, which is subject to Moore's Law. Water in a pipe, is not. As has been repeatedly pointed out to you at least 5 times now, WE ARE TALKING ABOUT OPENING THEM UP TO COMPETITION. You, on the other hand, are trying to protect them from competition. WHY the hell?

Bottom line is that I want the ISP's to have to compete. And you don't.

I am pro-competition, and you are against it.

I am pro-free market, and you are against it.

Why?
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:57 pm

The Comrade wrote:so the city offers you the same municipal internet they offer everyone else, but you somehow magically are throttled in your speeds by living a few miles out of the city center?

that's not how this works works

and what do you mean you pay 44.95? you just said you pay for the top service.


Okay, how's this? Are you done accusing me of lying? Read right on my bill. Internet Max Access $44.95, hopefully that is clear enough for you. I don't need to lie about it. I've shown you a speed test and I've shown you the bill. It clearly shows what I'm saying.

ImageIMG_1066.JPG by bell30012, on Flickr
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Spider » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:01 pm

What is your nominal speed? What Mbps tier are you using.

I'm using shitty DSL right now, and I get the advertised speed.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby The Comrade » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:07 pm

Southern Dad wrote:
The Comrade wrote:so the city offers you the same municipal internet they offer everyone else, but you somehow magically are throttled in your speeds by living a few miles out of the city center?

that's not how this works works

and what do you mean you pay 44.95? you just said you pay for the top service.


Okay, how's this? Are you done accusing me of lying? Read right on my bill. Internet Max Access $44.95, hopefully that is clear enough for you. I don't need to lie about it. I've shown you a speed test and I've shown you the bill. It clearly shows what I'm saying.

ImageIMG_1066.JPG by bell30012, on Flickr



well other than the part where you said you paid for the best service option and then you admitted to only paying for the mid-rang package. then there's the fact that you claimed your internet has been the same for 10 years, which means you were paying 50 dollars for 15 down, 1 up a decade ago which is total bullshit. then there's the part about how your speeds are so insanely off from what is advertised and just objectively low. 1 up 1 down is basically non-existent internet. it would take you tens of seconds to a minute to even load a webpage. i know this because TWC f**k up big a month ago and i had speeds like that for a few days. these pictures you're taking and uploading? they would take minutes to upload on a connection like that.

and then there's the simple fact that speedtest can be VERY easily faked using a simple program like this http://blogmytuts.blogspot.com/2013/03/ ... oofer.html


yeah, you're lying. too many lies and changes to your story in way too short of a time period for me to believe what you're saying.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:10 pm

The Comrade wrote:
Southern Dad wrote:
The Comrade wrote:so the city offers you the same municipal internet they offer everyone else, but you somehow magically are throttled in your speeds by living a few miles out of the city center?

that's not how this works works

and what do you mean you pay 44.95? you just said you pay for the top service.


Okay, how's this? Are you done accusing me of lying? Read right on my bill. Internet Max Access $44.95, hopefully that is clear enough for you. I don't need to lie about it. I've shown you a speed test and I've shown you the bill. It clearly shows what I'm saying.

ImageIMG_1066.JPG by bell30012, on Flickr



well other than the part where you said you paid for the best service option and then you admitted to only paying for the mid-rang package. then there's the fact that you claimed your internet has been the same for 10 years, which means you were paying 50 dollars for 15 down, 1 up a decade ago which is total bullshit. then there's the part about how your speeds are so insanely off from what is advertised and just objectively low. 1 up 1 down is basically non-existent internet. it would take you tens of seconds to a minute to even load a webpage. i know this because TWC f**k up big a month ago and i had speeds like that for a few days. these pictures you're taking and uploading? they would take minutes to upload on a connection like that.

and then there's the simple fact that speedtest can be VERY easily faked using a simple program like this http://blogmytuts.blogspot.com/2013/03/ ... oofer.html


yeah, you're lying. too many lies and changes to your story in way too short of a time period for me to believe what you're saying.


Read my bill again... It clearly says "Internet Max Access." You do understand the word max, I'm sure. As I said, I have the highest level of service offered. My average speed is around 3 Mb/s but this time of the evening? It isn't going to happen.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby The Comrade » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:13 pm

then why is the highest service offered on the monroe, georgia municipal internet webpage a package that is 99 dollars that is also listed on the service application?

so either you aren't aware of the service your own city offers you or your pants are on fire.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Spider » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:13 pm

Southern Dad wrote:
The Comrade wrote:
Southern Dad wrote:
The Comrade wrote:so the city offers you the same municipal internet they offer everyone else, but you somehow magically are throttled in your speeds by living a few miles out of the city center?

that's not how this works works

and what do you mean you pay 44.95? you just said you pay for the top service.


Okay, how's this? Are you done accusing me of lying? Read right on my bill. Internet Max Access $44.95, hopefully that is clear enough for you. I don't need to lie about it. I've shown you a speed test and I've shown you the bill. It clearly shows what I'm saying.

ImageIMG_1066.JPG by bell30012, on Flickr



well other than the part where you said you paid for the best service option and then you admitted to only paying for the mid-rang package. then there's the fact that you claimed your internet has been the same for 10 years, which means you were paying 50 dollars for 15 down, 1 up a decade ago which is total bullshit. then there's the part about how your speeds are so insanely off from what is advertised and just objectively low. 1 up 1 down is basically non-existent internet. it would take you tens of seconds to a minute to even load a webpage. i know this because TWC f**k up big a month ago and i had speeds like that for a few days. these pictures you're taking and uploading? they would take minutes to upload on a connection like that.

and then there's the simple fact that speedtest can be VERY easily faked using a simple program like this http://blogmytuts.blogspot.com/2013/03/ ... oofer.html


yeah, you're lying. too many lies and changes to your story in way too short of a time period for me to believe what you're saying.


Read my bill again... It clearly says "Internet Max Access." You do understand the word max, I'm sure. As I said, I have the highest level of service offered. My average speed is around 3 Mb/s but this time of the evening? It isn't going to happen.


That's funny, considering this:

http://www.monroega.com/departments/utility-department/cable-internet

Really? You paying $99.95 for 50? Or $44.95 for 15? Which is it?

Really, Monroe is getting a far better deal than I do. Far better.
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Re: This looks promising!

Postby Spider » Tue Jan 06, 2015 7:15 pm

God I wish I had a municipal ISP like Monroe, GA. They've got Comcast beat hands down. To say nothing of my ridiculously bad DSL.
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