We're so f*cked

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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Saz » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:43 am

Kane wrote:You have to be trolling here. "Hey guys, a parade would really get people to reflect on the military. Wars certainly haven't so far."


That's just the problem, we only seem to reflect on it after we have bombed the wrong country and things have gone to shit. Even then, these conflicts end up taking on a momentum of their own and there is really no focus o questioning of the strategy. Just look at Afghanistan. Why the f**k are we still there? You are insane if you don't think a massive annual parade on veterans day, or independence day, will bring these conversations to the forefront. Americans still f**k DIE in Afghanistan, something lost on the vast majority of the country to does,'t fight or follow the news. This goes double for our fake wars like the ones in Syria or Yemen. With an annual parade, where American servicemen who fell in the last year are honors, will naturally prompt questions like "wait...they died where? for what?" It will also again help focus the public on events that can easily skip out of the news but which are nevertheless profound and deserving of further scruity. How have our naval vessel run into container ships and the like multiple times in the past year?

The American public must be reminded of the role out military plays in the world and the sacrifices they make. This is not done properly though the usual news cycle.

Kane wrote:But that's the point...you don't hold parades like that, especially now, because there's not a whole lot to celebrate. The grandeur contrasted with the ongoing conflicts is innately inane. And people know it.
Think of it less like a parade and more like a public inspection. No one is saying this has to be some grand event with 2,000 MBTs and cruise missiles on trucks. The point is exactly that we don't have anything to celebrate - it's done annually and the tone will and should reflect what has been won and lost in the last year. This is why I said it would have been interesting to have such a tradition during the Iraq war, it no doubt would be a more somber event that reflect the realities of the day. The french are constantly fighting in Africa as well, no one lambasts them or thinks it silly to hold a parade despite a bunch of legionnaires being killed in Mali or something. You people understand nothing of nationhood or civic pride - it's all about symbolism and capturing an ethos greater than any particular conflict, event or moment. It's about a display of civic unity and highlighting one of the institutions that we all have a stake in and that we all rely on. We are Americans, this is our republic, and this is how we defend it. It's dangerous to only discuss matters of millitary affairs and wars in a political context, the military must transcend that which is why a parade on a holiday like veterans day or 4 july will connect us all with the insitutiuon and the nation it serves. It's not a glorification of any one individual or any one victory.

Kane wrote:It's swept under the rug because the military is an all volunteer force, a limited portion of the electorate is affected as a result thereof, and people generally don't give a f**k until it's directly impacting them.
All the more reason for a parade that will put it in the public consciousness. It would almost certainly drive up volunteer rates as well - quite a bit more appealing when you see the military marching in brass or full kit. People want to be a part of something greater than themselves and they want to know they can make a difference, the military does all that and should be advertised as such. Right now people just assume its a one way trip to having your legs blown off in some sandy shithole.

Kane wrote:C'mon guy.

Let's be honest. If Trump wanted to hold a parade for Ghandi and world peace you would find an issue with it. You are the one unable to look past the man for the sake of the nation. Get a grip - America is bigger than all the current petty bullshit, something you really can't seem to understand.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby spacemonkey » Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:35 pm

Only two pages away from five hundred on how we're so f*cked. That's impressive and also pretty f*cked.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Demosthenes » Mon Feb 12, 2018 5:20 pm

I typed out ass response and my bloody computer crashed..

Basically the summarized version:

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" we don't need to parade our nukes down Pennsylvania Avenue for the rest of the world to know we can f**k their shit up. We aren't some tin pot regime or a wannabe superpower, we have no need to show off to the world. All Rocket Man has to do is look outside his window, no other country in the world can summon 3 supercarrier groups to the Sea of Japan and have 8 other carriers just chillin.

It’s true that the US has some history of parades most notably after the first Iraq War and during the Cold War showing off our nukes. But, its unneeded today, most Americans understand the role our military plays and the sacrifices they make. I would also hazard a guess that most Americans would rather we put the parade money towards the VA.

You don’t get more people interested in serving by having soldiers suit up and parade. We already spend $100 million on fairly cool advertisements. Because we are an all-volunteer military, if you want higher recruitment you have to make it worthwhile to an individual to sign up instead of going into the private sector.

A parade makes no sense economically or logistically
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby exploited » Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:28 pm

So, how many of you were banking on not paying off those student loans?
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby John Galt » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:07 pm

if you're talking about the president's budget proposals, he's a little late to the party, and the congress doesn't listen anyway
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby fstarcstar » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:28 pm

It's a good thing the media is focused on the issues tho...

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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby John Galt » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:54 pm

yeah if you think about those cheerleaders... it's really sad. and one wonders what collateral they have on them south of the border. poor girls.

also, she DID outflank Pence on diplomacy; of course, just about anyone looks like f**k hannibal at cannae next to him
Americans learn only from catastrophe and not from experience. -- Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby exploited » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:26 pm

On another note, I actually like Trump's idea of providing a food box to poor Americans, substituting for electronic cards.

Now, I'm sure it would be awful if implemented by the GOP, but were it implemented by a party that genuinely cared for the success of average people, it could be an efficient program.

Providing simple and nutritious meals consisting of whole ingredients would be a massive boon to poor children and adults, who are decreasing their lifespan and harming their educational attainment by lacking the proper nutrition and killing themselves with fast food.

Making it fairly easy to combine those ingredients for everyday use would just require a bit of study. No reason you can't send along packages of herbs to spice things up as well. Rice, vegetables, beans, lentils, and guides on how to easily combine them with poor people methods would be preferable to outsourcing to grocery stores and restaurants. Teaching people to cook is an important skill in itself, and it would also be a good way to channel outrageous food waste into productivity.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Saz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:37 am

Demosthenes wrote:Basically the summarized version:

"Speak softly and carry a big stick" we don't need to parade our nukes down Pennsylvania Avenue for the rest of the world to know we can f**k their shit up. We aren't some tin pot regime or a wannabe superpower, we have no need to show off to the world. All Rocket Man has to do is look outside his window, no other country in the world can summon 3 supercarrier groups to the Sea of Japan and have 8 other carriers just chillin.


No one said parade our nukes through Washington, and the parade would be for domestic not foreign consumption. Speak softly and carry a big stick really isn't applicable here. The Parade is still the big stick, speaking softly has more to do with our political and diplomatic posture - namely not talking about how we are going to blow away foreign countries on twitter every evening. We do not have a need to show off to the world but we do have a need to show off to our citizens - they should know and respect the capabilities of our military and those who fight and die for it, particularly as this is an all volunteer force where a small fraction of the population are carrying the entire burden. Bizarre how so many people find a parade offensive but shock and awe against third world shitholes for no apparent reason doesn't seem to be much of an issue.

It’s true that the US has some history of parades most notably after the first Iraq War and during the Cold War showing off our nukes. But, its unneeded today, most Americans understand the role our military plays and the sacrifices they make. I would also hazard a guess that most Americans would rather we put the parade money towards the VA.
No, most Americans do not. Something like 1% of the nation serves, and yet we are in constant combat across the world, and we have soldiers killing and dying regularly, nothing that barley makes the byline in the news these days. Yes, we could put the money into the VA, but that's penny wise and pound foolish. Ultimately veterans will be better cared for if the population truly saw veterans affairs as an issue. You want more funding for the VA have all the wounded Iraq veterans march in the parade. This isn't about glory, its about recognizing one of the few civic institutions that is still competent and that still is willing to make extreme sacrifices on behalf of the entire nation. What will a parade cost, tens of millions? You could easy get that in donations alone given the spectacle of the parade. GE is proud to be American and in honor of the iraq veterans marching today has donated $10 million to veterans affairs and is committed to increasing funding for [advanced prostethics or some shit].

You don’t get more people interested in serving by having soldiers suit up and parade.

lmfao you seriously don't believe this right? You would see a huge increase in enlistment if our military proudly paraded before the nation once a year. Every kid who is nothing would see the academy cadets marching to the adoration of the entire nation. Again, people want to be a part of something bigger and want to make a difference. Nothing will get that message across like an annual parade, doesn't matter how many be all you can be ads you run.

We already spend $100 million on fairly cool advertisements. Because we are an all-volunteer military, if you want higher recruitment you have to make it worthwhile to an individual to sign up instead of going into the private sector.
The worth is in the glory of doing something for you nation. It's not like high school kids are joining Blackwater, those guys are ex millitary as well. And they don't get a f**k parade.

A parade makes no sense economically or logistically

But it does politically and symbolically, and some things are bigger than money.
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Re: We're so f*cked

Postby Saz » Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:38 am

exploited wrote:So, how many of you were banking on not paying off those student loans?


It will still pay off, trust me. Long game not short
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