Political Crossfire Forums

Yes, it makes us more democratic.

No, that's not a good thing.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-p ... -luck.html

This is a thread where I copy and pasted a conversation had with a feminist, and she claimed society is going to need more prisons in order to accommodate letting people experiment in democracy with trial and error. She also said that some victims are obligated to endure violation so others can learn from experience.

Her argument was that society is not obligated to accommodate the unlucky, and that the unlucky are obligated to go to prison.

She also said we need more prisons rather than acknowledging an improvement of education or family values.

I've had this conversation before among feminists about learning and democracy, but this was the last straw. If it was up to me, the ideology would be illegal, and merely mentioning it would get you thrown in jail until you recant the position.

Your premise is very flawed, since almost none of the people in prison are there for actions that incite chaos.

The US has an incredibly high incerceration rate for three main reasons:

#1. Harsh punishment for a lot of victimless "crimes".

#2. No effort at rehabilitation.

#3. Social and racial inequality.

And none of them make you more democratic.

I don't think that the incarceration rate itself tells you anything about democracy, unless as you say the government are just locking everbody up.

To be honest the incarceration rate isn't the important figure anyway. Ultimately I would say that the key figure of any justice system is repeat offenders, and I think that really applies regardless of your political outlook. On one hand if you have people going to prison more than once it isn't working as a deterrent to crime therefore is clearly not an effective punishment, while on the other it also indicates that prison is not rehabilitating and educating people away from crime so isn't working from that point of view either.

Sparse, you are being a bit simplistic in your views.

Just because someone ends up back in prison doesn't really reflect on prison as much as it does on how our society treats ex-cons. When you have someone in for a simple non violent drug offense, and because of that, when they get out they can't find a job, can't find a place to live, are put on extremely strict parole requirements that are almost impossible to abide by 100%, you're simply setting the stage for a high reoffense rate. I mean when you treat someone like an animal, you can't fault them for acting like one.

I don't think it makes us any more or less democratic, but it is something we should be embarrassed about.

a lot of the tough on crime legislation came about because of direct democracy (via statewide initiatives). funded by private prison special interest groups, prison guard unions, and associated govt bureaucracies. as for the notion that a high prison population makes for a freer society, i'd have to question whether or not you're being for srs, cuz i for only only deal in srs bsns. it's pretty clear that the opposite is true; a high prison population is the result of a relatively unfree society.