Abortion: The Facts

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Abortion: The Facts

Postby Figaro » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:26 am

The big problem with the abortion discussion in America today is that it always revolves around legal decisions and not scientific fact. Scientifically, the "fetus" is a human being: He/She has human blood, human flesh, human DNA, which makes him or her human; not a dog, not a cat, not a bird, but human. And when he or she is sucked through a vacuum tube and destroyed, what has just been destroyed is a human life. That is science. That is fact.

What is all too often being focused on instead though is the "legalisms" of "personhood", whether or not the child in the womb is legally a person and therefore whether or not the child in the womb has the right to live and not be killed as all persons do. Does anyone know what is wrong with that? What is wrong with that is, that is what was done to the slaves. Their blood and DNA were human too, scientifically they were human beings like anybody else, but the law denied them personhood and thus their rights could be denied them, and that is what is being done here too. Today, just as then, the law flies in the face of scientific fact.

Abortion is the destruction of human life. Thats science. I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says: What I am saying is SCIENCE and is FACT. The child in the womb, scientifically is a human being, and therefore killing him or her is murder. And one other thing: It is also a fact that the DNA of the child in the womb is unique and different from the mother's DNA, which blows out of the water the argument that "I can do what I want with my body", because its not the woman's body, it is an entirely seperate person, with the right to life. The child in the womb, scientifically, is a unique person.

So, what do we call it when someone snuffs out the life of of an innocent person? In a civilized society, we call it murder
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Professor » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:40 am

Figaro wrote:The big problem with the abortion discussion in America today is that it always revolves around legal decisions and not scientific fact. Scientifically, the "fetus" is a human being: He/She has human blood, human flesh, human DNA, which makes him or her human; not a dog, not a cat, not a bird, but human. And when he or she is sucked through a vacuum tube and destroyed, what has just been destroyed is a human life. That is science. That is fact.

What is all too often being focused on instead though is the "legalisms" of "personhood", whether or not the child in the womb is legally a person and therefore whether or not the child in the womb has the right to live and not be killed as all persons do. Does anyone know what is wrong with that? What is wrong with that is, that is what was done to the slaves. Their blood and DNA were human too, scientifically they were human beings like anybody else, but the law denied them personhood and thus their rights could be denied them, and that is what is being done here too. Today, just as then, the law flies in the face of scientific fact.

Abortion is the destruction of human life. Thats science. I don't care what a judge says or what a lawyer says: What I am saying is SCIENCE and is FACT. The child in the womb, scientifically is a human being, and therefore killing him or her is murder. And one other thing: It is also a fact that the DNA of the child in the womb is unique and different from the mother's DNA, which blows out of the water the argument that "I can do what I want with my body", because its not the woman's body, it is an entirely seperate person, with the right to life. The child in the womb, scientifically, is a unique person.

So, what do we call it when someone snuffs out the life of of an innocent person? In a civilized society, we call it murder


Well, you didn't list an article supporting your opinion, so this will probably get locked. But, I'd like to respond before it does, especially since we have so few supporters on the board. So, mods, can we keep it open if I provide an article?

By the end of the first trimester the foundation the major organs is laid in the embryo, which now begins to take the human form.
Click here to watch a little video clip.

The second trimester marks the onset of fetal stage, when structural remoulding of the organs occurs. The number of cells in the organs gradually increases. These cells are now larger and functional, thus increasing the organs' performance as well.

By the onset of third trimester the baby is fully formed. The third trimester is the period of maturation.

- See more at: http://www.childhealth-explanation.com/ ... 8BIH2.dpuf

Image


Take a look at that chart at the end. Note how, almost at the end of the 2nd trimester is where there is a 50% chance of viability. This is important.

To your argument. Your liver has human DNA, human flesh and human blood. Is it a human? Nope. Why? It cannot live without its body (not for long, at least). A fetus is no different. Until it can live outside of the womb, it is not a separate human (or person). It is an organ. Or, if you prefer, a parasite that cannot be separated from its host.

If we used your definition, then cutting ones' fingernails or hair would be illegal, as they should be considered "human", also.
Image

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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby The dane » Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:47 am

Professor wrote:It cannot live without its body (not for long, at least). A fetus is no different. Until it can live outside of the womb, it is not a separate human (or person). It is an organ. Or, if you prefer, a parasite that cannot be separated from its host.


This is exactly right.

I'm not in favor of abortion after the fetus becomes viable outside the womb (unless the life of the mother is seriously threatened), but I am in favor of abortion prior to that stage.
A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.

Albert Einstein
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:55 am

I'm all for abortions being legal. Have at it, but you need to be able to pay for it yourself. I don't want money seized from my earnings used to pay for your birth control. Hell, let Planned Parenthood put in drive thru windows, long hoses on the vacuums but add a credit card swiper.
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby exploited » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:01 pm

Southern Dad wrote:I'm all for abortions being legal. Have at it, but you need to be able to pay for it yourself. I don't want money seized from my earnings used to pay for your birth control. Hell, let Planned Parenthood put in drive thru windows, long hoses on the vacuums but add a credit card swiper.


I don't want money seized from my earnings to pay for your roads, your childrens education, to subsidize your healthcare costs when you're older, etc.

See how easy and pointless that is?
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Philly » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:02 pm

Southern Dad wrote:I'm all for abortions being legal. Have at it, but you need to be able to pay for it yourself. I don't want money seized from my earnings used to pay for your birth control. Hell, let Planned Parenthood put in drive thru windows, long hoses on the vacuums but add a credit card swiper.

Abortions are cheaper than 18 years of SNAP and TANF.

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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:04 pm

exploited wrote:I don't want money seized from my earnings to pay for your roads, your childrens education, to subsidize your healthcare costs when you're older, etc.

See how easy and pointless that is?


Well, unfortunately for you there is a federal law that says my tax dollars can't go to pay for abortion. So, if you play, you need to pay to suck that unborn out of you.

Philly2 wrote:Abortions are cheaper than 18 years of SNAP and TANF.


So are condoms, the pill and abstinence.
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Philly » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:14 pm

Southern Dad wrote:
Philly2 wrote:Abortions are cheaper than 18 years of SNAP and TANF.


So are condoms, the pill and abstinence.

I think we should fund all those things. Except abstinence. When is this abstinence thing going to die? People are going to f**k, you can't teach them not to. It's encoded in us. You can teach them to use protection and birth control, but abstinence isn't a realistic macro policy for avoiding unwanted pregnancy.
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby Southern Dad » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:19 pm

Philly2 wrote:I think we should fund all those things. Except abstinence. When is this abstinence thing going to die? People are going to f**k, you can't teach them not to. It's encoded in us. You can teach them to use protection and birth control, but abstinence isn't a realistic macro policy for avoiding unwanted pregnancy.


Really? Quit paying benefits to anyone who has a child more than 9 months after getting on welfare. You'll see a quick decline in the number of births to people that can't afford to feed them.
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Re: Abortion: The Facts

Postby exploited » Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:21 pm

Southern Dad wrote:
Philly2 wrote:I think we should fund all those things. Except abstinence. When is this abstinence thing going to die? People are going to f**k, you can't teach them not to. It's encoded in us. You can teach them to use protection and birth control, but abstinence isn't a realistic macro policy for avoiding unwanted pregnancy.


Really? Quit paying benefits to anyone who has a child more than 9 months after getting on welfare. You'll see a quick decline in the number of births to people that can't afford to feed them.


Incorrect. What you'll see is more hungry kids, who will grow up poor and uncared for, and end up costing you far more money.

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